Our Time PressThe Local Paper with the Global View

David Mark Greaves

One of the problems with Khalid Muhammad is that he believes too much in the myth of “America”.   He believes first of all in the First Amendment and the notion that he, a black man, has as much right to speak as provocatively and wrongheadedly as any leader outside the mainstream.   The police usually put up protective lines to keep groups safe from others who object to what’s being said.  They do not attack the stage or the speaker.   Khalid thought the same rule applied to him.  It was not that he was mistaken putting his faith in New York’s Finest to responsibly fulfill their obligations to protect the Constitution and the right of free speech.   His faith was well placed in the majority of officers at the event, particularly the community patrol officers who are closest to the people on a daily basis.  They, along with many of the other officers, were looking at a good overtime day of standing around in a peaceful crowd, being bored and being well paid for it.  Had these officers been left in charge, the event would have ended safely.

We have learned that there are two elements in the police department.  There are the everyday cops doing their jobs, and then there are the Special Units.  Every fascist has them.  Sometimes they’re called the SS, the Gestapo, or the Palace, Praetorian or Presidential Guard.  These are the Elite troops that the maximum leader knows he can count on when the task is subduing the citizenry, a task that officers too close to the people may blink at.   Those special forces were nakedly revealed at the Saturday march, and the effectiveness of their tactics is unquestionable.
Khalid… a Disappointment
And that’s where Khalid was a disappointment.  His remarks at the end of the march were ill-advised at best and deliberately provocative at worst.   That he bracketed them with words of peace, love, self defense and legalisms, are fine points that his lawyers may have to bring up in a court of law.   But they are fine points that are lost in the media’s editing room.  And that they were spoken by a man who then sped off surrounded by security while women and children were left to be protected by those with the courage to stay, that was inexcusable.  
Giuliani’s Ambitions
The fact is, Rudolph Giuliani is mayor of the city, he’s a totalitarian leader, and he don’t cotton to that kind of talk around here.   If Khalid were a Jew in Nazi Germany, he would know better than to get on a soapbox and speak ill of the Nazis.  If he were in America in Puritan times, he would not proclaim that those who burned witches should turn to Allah.  He would know better. We live in New York City, a place where the Mayor is floating balloons for a Presidential run.  The mayor could not care less about black people in New York.   They don’t vote generally, and when they do, it’s not for him.  Mayor Giuliani was busy calculating the affect in Iowa, Florida, and Arizona. He wants his future to lie on the national stage and a 15% voter turnout puts the backs of black folks at the right level to step up on. 
Lost Opportunities
What is in danger of being lost here is the best of what the march could have been.  What is clear at this point is that only organized, political action can achieve any measurable goals.
There was a lot of potential at the march.  A lot of good energy and sincere people, many ready, willing and able to work toward goals.  But much of it was lost in violent rhetoric.  Young people have to be taught how to use language in a more sophisticated way.  Because of Khalid’s remarks and the easy path they gave for the mayor to dash for the high ground, movement energy will be spent defending him, rather than lining up the political power to destroy this mayor’s presidential ambitions.  The only way that is done is with voter turnout.  And if that is the legacy of this march, then it would be well-remembered.   If it made people look back at the courage and discipline of the nonviolent  resistors who faced dogs, cattle prods, and water hoses, at the height of the civil rights movement, then it will be well-remembered.   There was once a time of meetings in homes, organizing across groups, and door-to-door outreach into our communities.   It was these efforts and those of people like the freedom riders of the sixties that reshaped America.   Those were revolutionaries who were on a mission and who were able to achieve goals.  They walked on dusty roads and in and out of yards, having to be watchful of ever-present dangers.   They were attacked and beaten.   Some lost their jobs, others lost their homes and their health.  Many like Goodman, Chaney and Schwerner, were beaten to death.  Others like Medgar Evers were shot.  They endured all of it in the faith that later generations would take the right to vote that had been so painfully won and use it to continue the march toward a free society.  In the face of those sacrifices, African Americans in New York should be awash in embarrassment at their 15% turnout in the September Primary.

The vote is the only thing that keeps the fascist element in politics at bay.   With a 15% voter turnout, it’s no wonder they’re at our front door.  With a 15% voter turnout it’s no wonder politicians don’t respect us, why should they?   Because we’re Black and Beautiful?  Because we can dress in wonderful colors and march in righteous indignation?   Because we’ve got a couple of jobs in midtown or Wall Street and promise to be good?  
This is the United States of America.  It is a market driven society.  It is run by white males and they aren’t playing games.   Black people had better get to work, and quickly.       David Mark Greaves

To paraphrase an old New Yorker cartoon, the Unity Party has put it all together.  They’ve walked the streets throughout New York State.  They’ve gotten 20,500 signatures and are listed on the ballot.  Unpaid citizens have been meeting every week for several months after work and on weekends.  They’ve made the calls and addressed the envelopes.  They’ve held fundraisers and community meetings. They’ve held petition seminars, and voter rallies.  They have a candidate for Governor who’s a mother, a grandmother, a teacher, an activist, a doer, an African American.  They’ve built a multiracial coalition spanning the entire state.  They have a platform that comes up from the street and borough coordinators directing outreach.  The United Nations is in session and the world is in New York.  There was a 15% voter turnout in the Democratic primary so nobody’s expecting much.  The stage is set to rock New York.  All they need is you.
Mary France was born one of eight children, in Scottsburg, Va. Her father never went to school; he and Mary’s mother were farmers.  Mary graduated from Mary Bethune High School in Halifax, Va., an all-black segregated school.
   After high school Mary moved to Corona, Queens, She got married, had six children, worked for an agency part-time cleaning offices early in the morning and late at night while she took care of her children and began attending York College in Jamaica. She worked with the Parent Associations in her children’s schools, including being the president of the P.A. at PS 92 in Corona. She graduated Cum Laude from York College with a BA. in English in 1980. Mary was the founding president of the Parents Coalition for Education in 1982 and continued in that capacity until 1989. She ran for school board twice, in 1986 and 1989 and as an independent for State Assembly in 1994. She has been a member of the Queens Coalition for Political Alternatives, National Black Child Development Institute, NAACP, and the National Council of Negro Women.  She played a leading role in the Emergency Campaign to Save Our Schools, African Americans
Political Power, the Citywide Coalition of African American Education Organizations, Advocates Children, the National Committee for Independent Political Action and the Campaign for a New Tomorrow(CNT). She was N.Y. State coordinator for Ron Daniels’ Independent Presidential campaign -in 1992. She has worked actively with CNT’s Haiti Support Project.
   Mary was the Director of the Office of Parent Involvement under Richard Green, the city’s first American School’s Chancellor. She has worked as the Director of the Homework Assistance Program at the Langston Hughes Library and Cultural Center, Senior Instructor and Project Director at York Adult Learning Center and Director of the Even Start Program in Community School District 2. She currently teaching English at I.S. 227 in East Elmhurst and serves on the N.Y. State Regents Visiting Committee for Low-Performing Schools. In addition to her sir children, she has six grandchildren.

The Million Youth March should have been a quintessential experience for our youth the way it was for the participants at the Million Man and Million Woman Marches.  Thousands of young people,  toddlers,  school-age children, teenagers, adolescents, young adults, showed up for an event that was supposed to be about them.   The first speaker, 17-year-old Damian, a youth leader and member of the Boys Choir of Harlem, declared “Generation X is the New Millennium!”  Placards told of concerns about AIDS, homelessness, education, housing, racism, health, Reparations and empowerment,  self-respect, brotherly love and Black Power.  Two young men representing the Five-Percenters spoke about family.   There were Erica Ford’s demands for Black Power underscoring the need for Black self-love, Black economic development and political empowerment.  A young couple from California, the Los Angeles coordinators, embodied the movement and energy of youth in their dramatic message about respect.  There were other young speakers, and the audience listened to all of them.  They were ready for something new.  These young leaders were hard enough and strong enough to talk about peace.  Older soldiers, scholars,  politicians and others- from Dr. Ben and Dr. Jeffries to the people’s mayor, The Rev. Al Sharpton and Harlem’s mayor Delois Blakely showed that the greatest weapon is the mind and the real untelevised revolution is the one that takes place in the mind’s eye first.  Waiting in the shadows to talk about such issues as Voting and Education were Cornel West and Adelaide Sanford.  Their voices were not heard that day.  There was no time. 
Yes, there was all this at the March, but what our  youth got was “Apocalypse Now” — rhetoric, lingo, mega-guns, sharpshooters, pepperspray and helicopters.  They were given this by adults who focused on termination rather than determination, action, unity. And with only four hours to get the message out, too many speakers used the time unwittingly to promote the enemy, real and perceived.
There were rumors – later verified by callers to radio talk shows – that Harlem school gyms were filled to capacity with artillery and weapons.  We saw horsemen lined up at Marcus Garvey Park, water tanks on 110th and Lenox.  It was reportedly planned that injured police officers would go to St. Luke’s or Roosevelt Hospital while marchers would be taken to Harlem Hospital or North General.  Was someone  preparing for an all-out military operation? 
Perhaps the legacy of the Million Youth March is this: in its effort to bring youth issues to the forefront for discussion and solutions, the March itself was a reflection of the monster challenges many of our youth say they face daily in their personal lives: there is never enough time to take time, few appear to be listening to them, there’s a constant threat of being shot down, and the guardians who would lead, protect, teach and guide the children are in need of guidance and leadership skills, themselves.
In the end, the youth were the heroes.  They restrained themselves at the barricades, and protected the women and children in the path of  riot police. They invoked the spirits of Malcolm X, Martin Luther King and the Million Marches.   They included Rap artists, security personnel, The One Hundred Blacks in Law Enforcement Who Care, mothers and fathers who care, the residents along Malcolm X Blvd. and its side streets, the Bedford Stuyvesant Ambulance unit and many, many more.  They were calm and they were calming, and they stood  their ground on Malcolm X Blvd .. . like real warriors.

Khalid Muhammad’s most challenging moment may have occurred six hours after the rally and less than a mile away from 118th St. and Malcolm X. Blvd.    A busload of youth had come up from North Carolina to participate in the rally. They wanted to take home more than the next morning’s headlines.  And they had some serious questions of the March convener. Khalid  took a deep breath and walked over to their circle.  On a dimly-lit sidewalk a few feet away from a bustling Harlem avenue , he quietly listened to their questions.  The easiest to answer concerned the reasons for the libations ceremony and why  Master P was so heavily promoted.  (Eds. note:The rap mogul provided the much-needed last-minute financial backing for the event).  Khalid thought perhaps the youth group’s adult leader had encouraged her charges to prod  him a little.  But he said this with a sigh, as if he understood that  that’s a youth leader’s role. 
(We present in this issue speeches  that may have been lost in the  blitz to report on the March’s final minutes. In this issue, also, are some of  the March  supporters I spoke to in the crowd at the frontlines.Next month, Fatima Prioleau, Sharonne Salaam, C. Virginia Fields, and more.)

The Candidate Speaks
OTP:   In terms of this campaign, what is the importance of another party line, what power does it give you, and what are the issues that your campaign will address?
Mary France:  There are several lines right now, but in spite of that none of the current parties represent the masses of the people.   None of them.  Not the Democrats, the Republicans, the Conservatives, none of them.   They have a White male dominated mentality.   Unity is very, very different.   Even the Green Party, which is a progressive party, is white male led.   So there is no message being sent to people who are not white, that there is a party that is out there for them.  And the issues of people of color and other oppressed people and working class people and people who don’t have jobs, those issues are not being met by the existing parties.    So we don’t really have a People’s Party.  That’s what Unity is about.  And it’s not just a one shot deal, we’re here for the long term.  Once we get our 50,000 votes and a ballot line, we will be able to run local candidates throughout New York over the next four years.  We’ll be able to make a real difference by offering a real alternative, a People’s Party that is focused on addressing the needs of the average person and the people who have been overlooked.   This stands against the major parties that look to protect the interests of the upperclasses.   Unity is a People’s Party that has more emphasis on meeting the needs of the poor and the average worker versus looking at corporate America.   It’s the people who we serve that make it a different kind of party.   The issues that come out of that are their issues.  There are issues such as the Prison Industrial Complex being built versus having schools and education as a priority.   There are issues of people not having jobs and then finding jobs created in prisons and holding facilities.   Many people don’t have access to health care.   The Unity Party will shift the emphasis of the health debate toward Universal Health Care so that people don’t have to worry about HMO’s and not being able to be served.   There are a lot of issues, but the ones that stand out for me are the prisons, jobs and education because they are all so intertwined.  We don’t put a priority on education.   We don’t try to rehabilitate.   Others talk about being tough on crime and all they mean is putting people in jail longer.  We’re tough on crime by being strong on prevention and rehabilitation. There’s only lip-service  being given to the youth.  What we need are strong after-school programs.  We have to come up with progressive human based solutions rather than this punitive based mode we’re in. Those are the kinds of issues this party will speak to. 
OTP:  You mentioned human type programs.  Give me an example of a human type program.
MF:   Look at community development.  We have to reinvest in the communities.  Right now, the emphasis is on trickle down.   Well, if you’re dying of thirst, a trickle of water is more frustrating than helpful and may be too little too late.    Giving millions to major corporations and having those corporations spread around some minimum wage jobs,  that does not help the communities or the lives of those people.   They don’t have develop any wealth, they don’t own anything.  The community doesn’t benefit.  So in terms of human type things, when we invest in the community, we’re building up the people in the community, we’re building up the infrastructure of the community the housing the schools the health care system.  We help that community be viable.   We are going to have programs that reinvest in the economic development of communities.   In the Unity Party, we call it a 21st Century Program for jobs.  We will be looking at banks and other financial institutions to show them their responsibility and determine how they can participate in the community building process.   We will be looking at their loan programs for home improvement, entrepreneurship and community investment. 
OTP:  In the last two days the Federal Reserve Board of New York stepped in to save a failing fund called Long-Term Capital Management. John Merriweather ran the thing and he was supposed to be this massive genius with Nobel Prize winners on his team.  Now he’s screwed up big time and they took $3.5 billion out of some fund and saved his ass.  It seems that the elite have a system in place to take care of themselves and their kind.  What systems would you put in place to take care of small businesses that come upon hard times?
MF:  We don’t need a new system.  The same one that worked for those people that got that $3.5 billion?   That’s what we need.  The monies are there, the only question is who gets it.   The money is always there when certain people need it.  When the S & L’s got into trouble the money was found for them.  Now you’re telling me they came up with $3.5 billion dollars?  That’s a whole lot of money.
OTP:  I thought so.

MF:  You see, if you have the right emphasis, there is no reason why we cannot have community development.  No reason why we cannot have plans and initiatives to help community people instead of just giving handouts to these big corporations.   I’m not familiar with the specific situation you’ve mentioned here, but I would examine those kinds of actions, examine the language and the structures that allow that, and make them apply to communities in the same way.  This kind of behavior is obscene.   There is no reason why communities have to suffer while these other guys get taken care of.  
It is important that communities have a positive sense of the future, that they have some hope they can have a thriving foundation.   Everything works together.  If you build up the community, if you create the housing, have the programs the development, get the school working, then you don’t have all of these other problems that people are locked up for.  You eliminate those problems with prevention.   Let me emphasize that I don’t just mean black communities here.  It is important that average working communities across the racial spectrum have the opportunity to grow and heal and save themselves.
OTP:  You spoke about the youth a moment ago.  You know there was a Million Youth March here in New York on September fifth.  Were you there?
MF:  Yes I was and when I arrived I was sickened at how people were herded like cattle through those metal barricade chutes.   To see that in 1998 people are so disrespected in the African community was disgusting.   This was a festive crowd of positive African people and other nationalities, simply hungering for ways to make their lives better, and they were treated like that.
OTP:  That was outrageous to have to wind through those mazes the police set up.  Looking at the behavior of some of the police units at the end of the march, what did you think of that, and as Governor what could you do about it?
MF:  When people ask me about the Million Youth March, the first thing that comes into my head is racism.  It’s ingrained in the fiber of this country.  People don’t like to talk about racism but it is a fact of life and New York is no exception.   It is conscious and unconscious.   At different levels and degrees people use rationales to cloak it and cover it up.  There is a tacit understanding of “Let’s keep certain people in their place.” 
As a Governor, at this point it is uncertain if there is any legal redress in terms of the actions taken by the mayor and the officials of the police department.   But as Governor of the State of New York, while Pataki may not have been able to take a legal position, he could have taken a humane position.  He could have taken a stand.  He could have addressed the concerns of an oppressed community in his state.   He could have at least done that.  As a leader he could have spoken out against the way politicians try to pit upstate against downstate in a racial divide.   He could have set the tone and said, “In the State of New York, we will not have this kind of Bull Connor attitude.  We have a diverse state and we will respect the contributions of all of the people.”  A leader should set those kinds of tones.  He could do that as a leader but he failed there. 
OTP:  What about the state budget and affirmative action spending.  I remember when Dinkins was mayor, he had a serious affirmative action component.  I was in a previous career at the time and I attended some of those proposal review sessions for contractors.   They had the contractors, and I was one of them working for a white company at the time, scrambling to find minority partners to fulfill their portion.  It was the first time I had seen that.   What kind of affirmative action component would you have in state spending budget?
MF:  When it comes to Affirmative Action, I would look at that history very closely.  Affirmative Action across the board has not necessarily benefited African people.    I don’t care what people call it, but there must be programs that bring equity and fairness and levels the playing field.  Any program I have as governor of the State of New York would be fair to all its citizens be they African American or women.   These are groups that have been disenfranchised, who have not had the equal footing and could not reach equal equity because they’re always behind.   The goal would be to put everyone on a level playing field.  Until that is done, we will work to have programs to insure that happens.  Historically, white men have had the power.   Women have not had it and African Americans have not had it.  If women and black people had not fought for the vote and other equalities they would never have come.  We have to make sure we do not stop that fight until we get there.  Affirmative Action has to exist, not just in regard to African people, but for all folks who are not where they could be because there has been a long history of inequality with certain groups benefiting over others.  We would change that.
OTP:  The prison population has been exploding and a lot of it has been based on the Rockefeller Drug Laws.  Could you comment on that?

MF:  We need to repeal these Rockefeller Drug Laws.  They’ve been in effect since 1973 and they are very discriminatory.  It doesn’t make sense that people would go to jail for a  small amount of crack and not go to jail for a large amount of powder cocaine.   But people have to be educated.  Many in our own community say, “Yeah, send them to jail.”  But it’s not fair that people should be in jail for years rather than be rehabilitated.  We have to look at bringing people out, helping them be productive citizens instead of just locking them up.   But again, the laws are designed to keep certain people in their place.  Most powder cocaine users are white, and they get to walk.  Most crack users are black and they get locked up for long sentences and a lot of the crimes are non violent.   It isn’t all shootouts.   A lot of it is someone found carrying vials and suddenly they’re locked up for long periods of time.  The worst part is the way people are being convinced that these are criminals.  I really resent that.  We have to look at that for what it is and change it.  These laws are set up so that African Americans don’t grow and be competitive as a people, and we need to be honest about that and deal with it.   If a person is a real leader they will address these things in a forthright manner.    If they don’t then it’s either because they feel African Americans should be dealt with in this way, or knowing the system is wrong, don’t deal with it because the people who vote for them wouldn’t like it and they don’t have the guts to stand up and say, “These things are wrong, let’s change them.”  We need to raise these issues and force politicians to deal with them, and where they don’t, we need to kick their behinds at the polls.

OTP:  The recent primary election only had about 15% of the electorate coming out.  What’s going on and how can we change it?
Charles Barron:  Number one, I think that a lot of voters feel they don’t have a reason to vote. They’ve been lied to so much by elected officials that there is a fair amount of despair and hopelessness vis a vis the electoral process, and we can’t blame it all on voter apathy.   The other part is the candidate.  There is a lack of sincere, down-to-earth, grassroots, for the people, candidates.  So when you have candidates that are not committed to the people, and you have incumbents who have sold out the people, it’s very, very difficult to convince people to come out and vote because Rosa Parks, and Fannie Lou Hamer, and Martin Luther King, Jr. struggled for you to have that right.   We ran that one down for a little while and it’s worked to an extent.  Now people want to see some concrete changes in their daily living.  They want to see things delivered and promises kept. 
OTP:  How do we convince people that there is a reason?   I see folks out here who simply have no inclination whatsoever to go and vote.
CB:  I think you have to do several things.  Number one, as we’re doing with the Unity Party and the Mary France campaign, is to give people a reason to vote,   to develop a new electoral movement.  To revolutionize the electoral movement with people who are connected with grassroots people.  I think once they see candidates from the community who have worked in the community, candidates they believe in, then I think we’ll have a better chance. Even though this last turnout was dismally low, I look at things like Barry Ford running against Ed Towns in the 10th Congressional District.  Ed Towns got 17,000 votes and Barry Ford got 12,000 votes.  That’s a lot for a person who was not known before this race.  And when you add in the other guy, Ken Diamondstone, he got 4,000 votes.   So there were 16,000 votes against Ed Towns.   48% of the district went against Ed Towns, a longtime incumbent.   Well that’s a signal that people are dissatisfied with the kind of leadership Towns is offering and want a change.
OTP:  What are the nuts and bolts of grabbing people and getting them down to the ballot boxes.  How is that done?
CB:  First it has to take place long before the election.  I think that’s a mistake that a lot of grassroot candidates, insurgent candidates make.  They take too long to run.  They wait until the last minute to make that decision.  To run, you need an expert team to get the signatures to get on the ballot.  You need to raise enough money, and you have to be connected to the people.  People are tired of folks coming around just on election day.  
We have an election coming up in 2001 and we’re out here now, three and four years before the election, getting connected with our people.   We have to see our folks where they are.  We have to go into the barbershops when there are no elections and find out what is on folk’s minds.   We have to go to tenant association meetings, block association meetings, churches, when there are no elections.  Just to get involved in the everyday life of our folks and work on issues they care about.  Rent control issues, issues in the housing developments, income caps.  People are looking at subsistence education of their children and we have to address those basic issues.  When people know that you are going to address the issues that impact their daily lives, and do it on a consistent basis, even before the election, then I think we have a better chance of getting them out to vote.
Just last night I was talking to five or six brothers on the corner, and one of them said, “I’m glad you stopped to talk.  We saw your picture on the poster, but I’ve never met you.    Now that we’ve met, you can rest assured you’ve got my vote.”  I invited them to an organizing committee, Operation POWER.  It’s an organization that came out of our campaign.  So that’ll be four or five more people.  I’ve got to do more of that.  So do other people who are serious about transforming our communities and our people. 
OTP:  It’s not just the picture on the poster that gets the job done?

CB:   No, you can’t just put the picture on the poster up a few months before election day, get the New York Times and the Amsterdam News to endorse you, some big name people to endorse you.  You have to work hard everyday.   You have to walk through the housing developments.  See the folks sitting on the benches, introduce yourself and see what is on their minds.  What do the people want?  Of course they’re going to tell you “I need a job.”  Of course they’re going to tell you they want the drugs out of the community.   Then you have to see what level of commitment they’re willing to make, to cause that kind of stuff to happen.   It takes leadership. There are two kinds of leadership, A transformative leader who is a change individual, trying to change the system so that a greater amount of goods and services are delivered to the greatest number.  Then there are the other types of leaders who are into transactions.   They cut deals.  They make transactions.  They get a small group of loyalists some jobs to keep them in office.  I believe we need to move toward a transformative leadership for change, and away from transactional so that we can create a political movement.
OTP:  There is always talk about how the incumbents have a built-in advantage.  What are the mechanisms they use to enhance their reelections? 
CB:  There are three main things they do to get reelected.  The first is mass mailing.   Take my 42nd Council District.   We have 54,000 registered voters.  The incumbent, with the money in her city council budget, can mail to those 54,000 voters two or three times right before the election.   So she’s already started off with three mailings to 54,000 people. 
OTP:  These are mailing paid for by the city?
CB:  Out of the city council budget.  It’s illegal to use the city council budget for a campaign and there is a law that you’re not supposed to do a mailing within ninety days of an election, but not many people adhere to that law.   So what they’ll do is say they are just sending out a council report to the district thirty days before the election.   So they get to do that three times.  Then when it comes to the campaign, the incumbents are connected to powerful people, like the mayor in the case of Priscella Wooten in my district or the mayor and Ed Towns, so they get support from these power associations and developers, and corporations, so they have a lot of funds.   So they take those funds and do two or three more mailings and add to the three they’ve already done.   So now you have five different mailings to 54,000 people.   Secondly, they do phone banking.  The day of the election or a week before the election, they get the unions to give them access to very sophisticated phone banks.  They are able have people work the phones.    So now the voters are getting phone calls.   Thirdly, most voters make up their minds the day of the election and the incumbents have the money to pay people to go out there with palm cards.  They have the financing to put teams of people at each polling site.  Priscella Wooten had five hundred people out to my one hundred.   So it’s mailing, phone banking and election day operations with palm cards.  That’s how the incumbent stays in office.  And they already have the name recognition. 
OTP:  Now what does an insurgent have to do to overcome that?
CB:  That’s why we have to start very, very early.   For example, I ran once, we got four thousand votes.  So even though Wooten is the incumbent and did all that I just said, and then some, she only got six thousand votes.   So four thousand to six thousand.  Now I have to work these next three years, to build an army for election day.  To raise more money so that I can do more mailing and to get a phone bank going.   I’ve got to spend the time expanding my base.  You have to build a base.  After the election, I didn’t go away.  We’re going to work out there to expand our base.  We’re going to go into the churches.  We had several ministers working with us this time, and we’re going to increase that number.   We are getting more into our youth.  There are a lot of young people who are politically conscious, the Hip Hop Nation.  Hip Hop culture is looking more toward politics.  I’ve spoken with young people in the district who are looking to get involved as well.  And then we are going to look more to expand toward some community-based organizations that were more fearful to get involved last time because there were purse strings attached.  But with no incumbent in the next election, even though they will still have a machine coming at me, these organizations will have more courage to get involved.  And then looking at the Tenant Associations and Block Associations Presidents.  These are real local leaders.  In our district we have about eleven housing developments.   We had three or four tenant association leaders from those housing developments involved.   We’re going to shoot for more and expand that.   Then we are working with the Black Political Free Agents organization, the Unity Party, and Operation POWER which is a group we put together.  And then we’ve been assisting other campaigns.   In this past election we worked with three or four different campaigns and that gave us relationships with other political forces.   That’s what we mean by expanding our base. 
OTP:  In this upcoming election for governor, what’s the lay of the land and what’s the role of the Unity Party and Mary France?

CB:  We’ve really got to build an independent political movement, a progressive political movement.   That is a major objective.  We want to get 50,000 votes under the Unity Party banner, so we can build an independent political movement.   Right now the two major parties either take us for granted like the Democrats, ignore us like the Republicans or use us like progressive white efforts.   So we’re either ignored, taken for granted or used.  The Unity Party brings us power, leverage and respect.   Instead of an individual voting for Twiddle Dee Dee or Twiddle Dee Dum, that is Peter Vallone or George Pataki, they’ll have a real choice.  Because those two are both so conservative their politics are very similar, it’s not going to make a huge difference who wins.  The difference will be so marginal, you’ll be better off voting for Mary Alice France, with the Unity Party, so that you’ll have 50,000 people representing you.   Because you need 50,000 votes to get an independent party line, when people seek elections with these major parties, they will look at you differently now because they are looking at 50,000 people instead of one person.   Or instead of black people who are controlled by certain black leaders who the power structure is comfortable with, we’ll have an independent party that will give us more leverage.   Having a Unity Party means that we can run our own candidates locally.  So if I run in 2001 as a registered Democrat, I’m also going to be on the Unity Party line. So it really increases our opportunities on a local level, as well as gives us more leverage and power and negotiating power on the broader level.
OTP:  Running on two party lines, how does that work?
CB:  you can be endorsed by many parties.   Peter Vallone is on the Working Families Party line in November, and the Democratic.   In New York City, the Liberal Party, the so-called Liberal Party that’s actually very conservative under the leadership of Ray Harding, they wield a lot of power now because they support Giuliani.  If that white vote is split, then the Liberal Party endorsement really means something.    We can play that same kind of power politics if we had a Unity Party and continued to build it.   There may come a time where we’ll run our own candidates for statewide office and keep building.  But in the meantime, as we win local elections and become powerful, we can still make a difference in the gubernatorial election if the two main candidates are neck and neck, if we can come in with a hundred thousand, hundred and fifty thousand votes, it can make a difference.  If you look at this last race for the Democratic Primary, Peter Vallone got 296,000 votes.   Chuck Schumer won the nomination for Senate with 252,000 votes.   That may seem like a lot, but you’re talking about millions of voters in the state.   Remember that Al Sharpton got 187,000 votes when he ran statewide with little or no money.   These other guys have millions of dollars.  Sharpton got more votes than everybody else in those races but the two winners.   Now that’s something to think about.  He got more votes than Mark Green, more votes than Geraldine Ferraro, more votes than Betsy McCaughey Ross.  When you look at the governor’s race, Peter Vallone got 296,000 votes.  Betsy McCaughey Ross 112,000, James LaRocca, 41,000, and Charles Hynes, 84,000.  Sharpton, with 187,00 votes in his senate race in 1994 got more votes than Hynes and LaRocca put together.  
OTP: How much did Sharpton spend on that race?
CB:  About $70,000.
OTP:  How much money do these other guys spend?
CB:  Millions.  I know Betsy McCaughey Ross spent about $2.5 million and she only got 112,000 votes. 
OTP:  Unbelievable.
CB;  So Sharpton spent $60-70,000 in that Senate race and he got 187,000 votes.   Look at it this way.  In his citywide run for mayor, he got 132,000 votes.   That was more than Betsy McCaughey Ross got statewide. 
OTP:  Gotcha.
CB:  Her 112,000 with her millions.  Look at the Senate race.  Charles Schumer got 252,000 votes with over ten million dollars.  That’s not cost-effective with Sharpton getting 187,000 votes for $70,000.  [ed. Note: These figures work out to approx. .37 cents a vote for Sharpton, $22.32 a vote for Ross, and $39.68 a vote for Schumer].   Mark Green had 93,000 votes.  Sharpton had 187,000.  Geraldine Ferraro, the woman icon, vice-presidential candidate, she had a few million, 132,000 votes.  The Geraldine Ferraro vote statewide was only as much as Sharpton got citywide, 132,000.  So we have the potential to really build a party, an alternative to the two party system, and really have a major impact.  And then look at some of the local stuff.   The local races.  When I ran against Priscella Wooten, I got 3,990 plus votes.  Four thousand.   Clarence Norman, Jr., the most powerful black Democrat in the State.  He received 3,313 votes.   Do you hear me?  We got four thousand. 
OTP:  And the populations are the same?
CB:  We have a larger district.  There are several assembly district in the council district.  But look at it this way, I got three thousand votes from just the 40th Assembly District.  That covers East New York, the other thousand came outside of East New York. 
OTP:  Alright.
CB:  He got three thousand three hundred.  I got three thousand in the 40th , one Assembly District.   I probably could have beaten Assemblyman Griffith if I would have wanted that seat, because he’s vulnerable and we’re building a machine out here.  Take the case of James E. Davis, Officer Davis.
OTP:  Oh yes.
CB:  He doesn’t have any real solid base.  Two thousand seven hundred and thirty-three votes against Clarence.  He got 45% of the vote against Clarence.   Look at Ed Towns with millions of dollars and out here for sixteen years, he got a total of 17,990 votes.   Barry Ford, a virtual unknown, 12,610 votes, 36% of the vote.  Kenneth Diamondstone, 4,000 votes.  If you total Kenneth’s and Barry’s votes, which is an anti-Towns vote, it’s 16,610 to Towns’ 17,990.  48% to Towns’ 52%.  What message is the electorate giving to us?   They want these guys out.   They will go with anybody to get them out.   But we have to build our bases more, and build our relationships more.
OTP:  What can the individual person do who says, “Hey, I want to make something happen.”  What can they do?

CB:  I don’t think there should be an individual black person in this city that is not a part of some organization.   The first thing all of us have to do with our families is join an organization.   We cannot do this thing alone.   Then once you get involved with an organization, you have to push that organization to be progressive.   To link with other organizations that have similar goals, so that we can build progressive and independent coalitions to launch an electoral movement.  Movements change things.   Campaigns put individuals in office.  Movements change things systemically.  Movements build platforms.   Campaigns build a person.  We have to get beyond the idea of running campaigns as individuals and look at building movements and coalitions for independent progressive policy that will be more issue-based and platform-based, organizational-based, and system fighters.  We can’t just look at somebody with a name, and put them in office.  They have to be committed to an agenda, an organization, and be system fighters.  Not afraid to fight against white supremacy.   That’s one of our major problems.  White male supremacy.  Most of the parties in this state, if not all, are lead by white males.   Whether they’re progressive parties or liberal parties, or conservative parties, they’re lead by white males. 
OTP:  Conrad Muhammad has an interesting group called A Movement for CHHANGE that he is developing.
CB:   Yes.  I think that’s an excellent group that has a world of potential.  Conrad Muhammad has a real challenge before him.  He’s going to have to sustain a movement, and develop the resources.  But we need training.  Groups like that need training.  Not only young people, but all of us need training.  I’ve put out a call to Conrad already.  We at Dynamics of Leadership, are certainly willing to provide that kind of training.  People will gather with you early, but to sustain a movement like that, you’re going to have to obtain some power real soon, and obtain resources in order to do fundamental things.  You have to find a building, a base, that you can organize in and have people come to.  In addition to the money, you have to have the training to go along with that so that you’ll know what the political landscape is in New York. 
OTP:  When we were speaking at the meeting, I was lamenting on the poor turnout and you said words to the effect, “Do not despair.”   Do you remember that?
CB:   Yes.  You know, I’m an eternal optimist and a realist.  I’m not one who is an idealistic optimistic in an unreal way.  But I’m certain that during slavery days somebody told Harriet Tubman that she was out of her mind.  That slavery was here forever, so why would she try and do something about it.  But Harriet did it, despite of all that was around her.  And slavery doesn’t exist anymore in that form.  I’m sure somebody told Marcus Garvey that he couldn’t build the things he wanted to build.  A steamship company in 1920.  Black people would never give him enough money to build the Phyliss Wheatley Hotel, and the Universal Grocery Store, and the Universal Restaurant.   But Marcus Garvey said, “Up you mighty race, you can accomplish what you will.”  And he did it.  I’m sure people thought that Jim Crow would be around forever.  George Wallace said, “Segregation now, segregation forever.”   He just died himself, as did segregation.   I’m sure someone told Nelson Mandela, “well you might as well just give it up.  You’re going to be in jail forever.   He sat in there for twenty-seven years.  Never giving up hope, always having a vision for a new South Africa.  Apartheid is dead and Mandela went from the prison to the presidency.   If that could happen in South Africa, if that could happen on the plantations, then we who have so much more, should do equally as well, if not better.  And any leader who comes before us and tells us that any form of our oppression is permanent, that’s a leader not fit to lead.